About Payne (Transcript) by Bill Kelly / STATEWIDE PERSPECTIVE / December 18, 2002 Film director Alexander Payne and actor Jack Nicholson are getting rave reviews for "About Schmidt." The movie was filmed in Omaha and other Nebraska locations during the spring of 2000. "About Schmidt" is the third film Payne based in Omaha. He believes the Midwest can never really be captured with fake locations in Hollywood. In October 2002 he returned home and spent an evening talking before a packed house for a fundraiser benefiting the Blue Barn Theatre. The evening’s host, Hughston Walkinshaw, and members of the audience spoke with Payne about his movies, how he works, and of course, directing Jack Nicholson. "Statewide’s" Bill Kelly covered the event for this special look at Payne’s life and work. [Houston Walkinshaw/Blue Barn Theatre] What was it like growing up in Omaha? [Alexander Payne] Fun. [Walkinshaw] Good. And that’s how the evening is going to go. [Payne] No, it was good. It was… I had a good childhood. [Walkinshaw] Your parents are here? [Payne] I think so. Where are they? Oh, hi. Hi-hi. [Walkinshaw] Alexander’s parents right there. You left Omaha and went to Stanford. [Payne] Correct. [Walkinshaw] Studying? [Payne] I double majored in history and Spanish literature. [Walkinshaw] And from Stanford then you moved on to? [Payne] Yeah, as a senior in college I applied to five film schools and one journalism school. Journalism is my road not taken and I got into film school. Had never really made a film before. [Walkinshaw] What did you use to get into the film school then? Did they… they didn’t require a…? [Payne] Yeah, the nice thing about film schools is they don’t want you to have studied film before going to film school because they think, well if he’s already… he or she has already studied film why are they coming to film school? They want to… at the graduate level they want people who have learned things in other disciplines that you can… I mean, anyone can really learn how to make a film in about a week, if that. Well, it’s true. The principles of film are very, very simple. But it’s a matter of what you’re going to film and what stories you want to tell and what eye you want to cast on the world that’s important. [Walkinshaw] And they help you define that in graduate school? [Payne] Well, they help teach you… you know, as I was saying the weeklong it takes to teach you how to make a film. And then you spend the rest of your time in film school in a conservatory-like atmosphere making film after film and making a lot of mistakes and hopefully getting better at it. [Walkinshaw] How many films did you make at UCLA before you did your thesis film? [Payne] Oh I don’t know, six or seven. But my last three years at film school were spent making one film, my thesis film, which was fifty minutes long. [Walkinshaw] Which is unusual for a thesis… [Payne] Little bit long… little bit long for a thesis film, yeah. [Walkinshaw] And then… so you completed that and it played where? [Payne] I completed it in 1990 and it played at many film festivals around the world. It was my first taste of traveling with a film. And… [Walkinshaw] And then it got interest, right? [Payne] Yeah, and it got my foot in the door in a nice way into American filmmaking in terms of people at studios got interested in me and I got an agent and all that kind of stuff that one hopes to get from a thesis film at a film school. [Walkinshaw] Well that leads us into seeing a scene from the Passion of Martin, which is your thesis film. [Payne] Yeah, correct. [Walkinshaw] What kind of tone are you trying to establish on your sets? [Payne] The kind of tone I try to establish on the set… [Walkinshaw] You know, there are the fiery directors, there are the very quiet directors, directors that don’t really talk to their actors… [Payne] I like people… I’m in filmmaking because I love films and I think it should be fun and I’m having… the worst day of directing a movie is still one of the best days of my life ‘cause I’m so happy doing it. And even when the producers you know are like, oh this is costing us money. Or if I fall behind schedule I’m like I act all concerned like, oh yeah I’ll work… I’m working on it. Yeah, I’m… yeah I’m worried. But inside I’m going… this is so fun. I can’t believe I get to do this. You know, it’s so… And I like to work with people who kind of have a similar perhaps joyful attitude toward the work they do. ‘Cause it’s not work. I mean, it’s sort of play. It’s hard play. And that’s the… an attitude I think that’s helpful and it makes life a little bit more worth living I think. And the fact that if you get to work at something that you love doing you’re just one of the most fortunate people on earth, and I feel that way. That I’ve found something I like doing and kinda found it at an early age and have… through luck and… you know, I get to do it. So the tone I set… I’m sorry about the long-winded response… but I think the tone on the set is I like to have fun and for people to work hard and yes, be obedient. But in a nice way. And I try to be not leader but rather perhaps… here’s Latin… Primus Interpares… first among equals. And… and then if anyone doesn’t go along with that they get fired. I’m actually… I’m actually serious about that. It’s…But I won’t yell at anyone or say, hey you know I’m watching you, or something like that. They just get axed. [Walkinshaw] Hear that any potential crew or actors? [Payne] Very… and it doesn’t happen often. But… yeah. But it’s good to do it the first week or two as an example. Yeah. [Walkinshaw] Well, I want to share one other clip from Citizen Ruth. Mike, are you ready? Let’s show the… the pro-choice clip here. [Walkinshaw] The thing that I like about that clip is actually when she goes, Whatever. You know, ‘cause do-gooders just so want gratitude. And he just never got it. [Payne] One of the things I like about art and about film is when it asks the question, no matter what the ostensibly the theme is, but the basic question. Do we live in the best of all possible worlds? And of course usually the answer is no. In fact, it’s always no. So I think even films which seem to be cynical or critical or satirical actually have a very positive message, which is how can we improve this. Let’s identify what our problems are and how screwed up and absurd we are. And… but the implication of the positive side of that image is present. [Walkinshaw] We’re about to see a scene from Election and I wanted to ask you about the differences between writing a story from scratch like Citizen Ruth, and adapting it from a book. You made some… several changes. [Payne] A book is a book and a movie’s a movie. So…So when going to adapt a book into a movie. We read it, read it, read it and then throw it away. We take notes during that process I was talking about where you’re taking notes and talking. And then go make a movie from it. And… but the whole reason I chose certain books to turn into films is… because its sparking something in me and I want a very personal relationship with what the film is. I kind of don’t care what the author… what the book author’s intention was. It comes through because there’s something in the book I responded to. But I’m more interested in my own version of that story. [Walkinshaw] Well, the book is set up also as a series of monologues almost. [Payne] Yeah. [Walkinshaw] And you use that in the film. [Payne] Yeah, one of the reasons I chose to do Election is I very much like voiceover in movies and… You don’t? I like voiceover in movies and usually it’s just from one character’s point of view, but Election had multiple voiceovers. I think it… the book has about eight people telling this story kind of Rashamon-like. We limited it to four but the challenge of telling one story with four people’s points of view and juggling those voices I thought would be really fun. [Walkinshaw] What was it like using a working high school? [Payne] It was great. It was really fun. They… the whole school was great. The school district, the superintendent, everyone was really terrific and supportive. [Walkinshaw] And they didn’t have a problem with the script? [Payne] Uh, well they were happy we were shooting there. And if they did have a problem I remember the… I think either the superintendent or the principal at one point when questioned about it said, yeah but it’s a movie. It’s just a movie. It’s not reality. I mean and there’s… I mean to anyone who would see this movie and then think oh teachers at Papillion High School are just like that and… I mean, who but a kook would make that connection? [Walkinshaw] But you use actual students from the school. [Payne] Oh yeah. [Walkinshaw] And you use… [Payne] Students and teachers. Yeah. Everyone… I’m sorry… part of the deal was whatever school we would shoot at, all the students there would get first crack at speaking parts. You know, one line, two line, three line parts, and we did that. You know, I like very much… and we could talk at this… we could talk a lot about this. We shouldn’t but briefly I like very much working with non-actors. Or actors who haven’t done a whole lot. They… and also… I mean the other thing too is since I cast a lot in Omaha, I like to reach out and just get people who really have the jobs of like…In Citizen Ruth the emergency room doctor is really an emergency room doctor. All the cops are cops; the security guard is a security guard. About Schmidt, the Dairy Queen gal, Melissa, she works at the Dairy Queen in Millard. She’s been assistant manager there for years. She has a 35 second scene with Jack Nicholson, its fantastic. [Walkinshaw] So what was it like to work with Jack? [Payne] I’ll just say the first week… I mean even though this was by far my biggest budget for a film and you think, oh its cushy and you can fall behind and nobody will sweat and everything. New Line Cinema was… I mean they were great to finance the film, but they were very draconian about saying, it’s this number and you can’t go over this. That’s it, and if you fall behind in your days… you’ve gotta cut the script. [Walkinshaw] Was Jack already attached to the film or did he come on board? [Payne] No. After the… after the screenplay was written. He had read the book About Schmidt and had said; yeah I’ll read the screenplay when you get that. [Walkinshaw] Which is wildly different than the… [Payne] Wildly different, but he liked the script. But that first week…So basically in order to make all my days I have to pre-block all the scenes that day and come in and say here’s what we’re doing. We’re going to start here; you’re going to walk in… in a wide shot. Cut. Then I’ll come in for a close-up… whatever it is. But often actors and great actors like to have some say in that or come in and we work out the scene together. No, my character wouldn’t do that. He would do this. And you’d just go oh my God! That’s going to…You just hear these stories all the time. But I couldn’t afford to do that. I had to impose blocking like you have to do on a low-budget film. But here I am imposing blocking on Jack Nicholson whose you know, Stanley Kubrick and Antonioni and Meloss Foreman and Roman Pulanski and John Huston. So the first week I… you know, I said, Okay Jack, you’re going to come in and… walk here and then we’ll cut and then you’ll make a close-up of this line, then you’ll walk over here. Is that okay? And he said, look whatever you come up with, I can find a way to justify it to myself. So what do you want? Total pro! [Walkinshaw] And a lot of the film is Jack Nicholson by himself. [Payne] Yeah. [Walkinshaw] That must have been very interesting to try and help him get to the emotional points you wanted him to get to. [Payne] Yeah. I mean he… he’s very good as you know and he can get there on his own. And I… and he did. I mean, I… he really gives a very generous performance in the movie. [Walkinshaw] How many takes does he like to work with? [Payne] Well, it’s… really it’s a question for me because… actors generally don’t like to do too many and I don’t… I don’t tend to do more than about four or five. Maybe seven at the very most. Maybe twice on About Schmidt I went up to twelve or fourteen but a lot of times they were because of the big camera… camera busts or it’s a dolly shot that’s being choreographed along with the actors. Not too many. [Walkinshaw] You got Kathy Bates for this film. You got Dermot Mulroney, who’s one of my favorite actors. [Payne] Hope Davis. [Walkinshaw] Hope Davis, who’s astonishing in this film. And then the woman who plays Jack Nicholson’s wife. [Payne] June Squibb, she’s from New York City. [Walkinshaw] She’s incredible. Well, are you ready to show a scene from…? About Schmidt? [Walkinshaw] Are you happy with the film? Can you look at your work and decide? [Payne] No. No, it’s hard. I’d like to say, oh yeah, I’m happy with it. Gee it’s great. It’s hard for me to watch my own work and know what it is. And know… like I get compliments on Election. Oh gee, I really like Election. And I… I’m polite and I… you know, I say thank you. But I kind of have no idea what they’re talking about. It’s a funny thing, your relationship to your own work. [Walkinshaw] Do you have any questions for Alexander? You can come up to these microphones. We have about ten minutes or so for questions. [Question] First, I think it’s an absolutely wonderful thing that you have returned to your hometown to do your first three movies. But I was curious when you’re writing these movies if in your mind you place them in Omaha at the time that you wrote them? And if you had in your mind already the sets and the… the places that you would choose? [Payne] Yeah, many of them. All three movies were very… excuse me, I was very determined that they would be shot in Omaha. Excuse me, Election and About Schmidt would be not only shot in Omaha but placed there. I mean, people say, Here in Omaha. And, Here we are in Omaha and so forth. Citizen Ruth is different in that it has a Midwest flavor to it, but its kind of more Anytown, U.S.A. It’s not… and it actually the story is kind of more like something that would happen in Fargo which is you know about a fifth the size of Omaha… much smaller. But yeah, I’ve been very determined. And Election, the book was set in New Jersey. I said, No, we’re making it Omaha. And About Schmidt the book was set in New York City and Long Island, and I said, No, Omaha. [Question] I was wondering, as an American film director if you have any opinion on the past and future of the western as a American… classic treasure? [Payne] Well, I want to… I want to make a western… [Question] Really? [Payne] I love westerns. I love westerns and I want to make one and yet everyone thinks it’s a dead genre. And I don’t. I think… or if it is dead, it’s like stock. When the price is low that’s when you should buy. You know… oh the market down. Oh good, let’s buy you know. But I love westerns and I think I’d like to shoot one out in western Nebraska. Human beings seem to love movies. You know, that’s why we all go see ‘em. We all love movies. I… I at an early age just sort of fell in love with movies and just always liked them my whole life. Although I will say that when I was in college and started to think about what I might do after college and film school was kind of looming out there as a dream you know. ‘Cause I… wow, what a risky weird thing to do, go to film school. I saw a Samurai movie… I saw The Seven Samurai at the Castro Theater in San Francisco and its such an… I don’t know how many of you have ever seen The Seven Samurai but you can rent it on DVD. It’s just… one, for me it’s pretty much the best movie ever made if you can say that. And I remember saying to myself, Wow I’ll never climb a mountain that high but… it might be fun to get a little bit up it. You know, or try to follow in the foot… It just makes… I mean good movies give you thirst for movies. Give you… I mean, it’s so nice when you see a good movie nowadays in this… the last twenty years when we’ve had so few good movies… good American movies. It’s been a dismal time… I mean I love the history of American cinema but up until 1980. In 1980 until now it’s been really bad mostly. But then when you finally… and you get kind of… And I despair sometimes when I think, Oh God, why am I doing this and does anyone really care? And now with 200 cable channels and… twenty-five movies opening every weekend and images have lost meaning. And I think what the hell am I doing with my life? You know, but then you see a good movie and you remember, wow, this is great!